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Pair of foreign investors in £30m race to buy Wanderers!

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wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I gave my word not to reveal the name of the American and will not do so until the issue has been fully resolved

So you'll tell us who it is once it's been revealed?

Will you also be telling us next Saturday's Lotto numbers on Sunday?

If you want me to, sure....19, 26, 40, 52, 56, 58. And the bonus ball is 38.

I'll cough up the name if the Saudis buy or it's otherwise confirmed that the US billionaire has definitely walked - providing my contact agrees.

Cajunboy

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I can reveal that Katie Piper will be eliminated from Strictly this evening.

MartinBWFC

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

If you want me to, sure....19, 26, 40, 52, 56, 58. And the bonus ball is 38.

I'll cough up the name if the Saudis buy or it's otherwise confirmed that the US billionaire has definitely walked - providing my contact agrees.
Boggers has nothing on you.

Growler


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I take anything Ken says with a pinch of salt so will believe the big money takeover when it happens.
My dream would be for Sam to come home and be given £25 million transfer spends to confirm our promotion next season.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I take anything Ken says with a pinch of salt so will believe the big money takeover when it happens.
My dream would be for Sam to come home and be given £25 million transfer spends to confirm our promotion next season.
Any incoming investor would have to pay whatever Anderson will accept - and he may hold out for £30 million - plus repayment of the loans that Anderson has taken out against the club's assets in order to get them back, say another £20 million plus other current liabilities including taxes at the time of purchase just to own a club that is losing money hand over fist.
On top of that £55 to £60 million, they'd then have to fork out whatever was needed to turn the club into a profitable business which is an unknown because we don't know what their plans to do so would be. I don't think £25 million would be anything like enough to guarantee promotion back to the Premiership if you look at the kind of money some clubs have spent and still failed to get there.
At modern prices we're probably looking for the level of investment ED made in the club just to get into and survive at the bottom end of the Premiership - and no investor would be daft enough to aim for that so we're starting to talk megabucks.
It's understandable that investors would be put off by the thought of the first £30 million they invest disappearing overnight as Toadface skips off into the sunset with it so. 
Getting bought out by a serious player or not comes down to one thing for me - does Anderson genuinely give a shit for BWFC or is he prepared to to put his own financial gain first even if it means the club suffering as a result?

rammywhite

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I take anything Ken says with a pinch of salt so will believe the big money takeover when it happens.
My dream would be for Sam to come home and be given £25 million transfer spends to confirm our promotion next season.

I think you're right to be cautious about what Ken says. I don't think we'll ever see the Fat Walrus back- and even if he did I don't think £25 mill would go far these days. Stick a zero on the end and we might get somewhere near promotion

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I don’t expect KA to care about the club as such - nor do I blame him for not doing so. As has been said many time he’s a businessman who wants to turn a profit. Regarding his other business interests i’d be interested to know whether the public financial disputes at the club have damaged his reputation or not? 

It’s clear he wants to sell for the right price now, which makes sense for all involved. Can’t say I’m hopeful of anyone actually coming through though we’ve seen it all before.

Growler


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
The quality of manager isn't as important as the amount of money being spent, but I reckon  Sam would create a formidable, promotion chasing Championship team with £25 million.Some other managers wouldn't
When he got us promoted back in 2001 there was no war chest given to him by Eddie Davies.It was his fine management rather than  money that was the main factor in our success then.He had the remnants of Colin Todd's play off losing team and topped it up with bargains like Ricketts and Charlton, the sort of signings Parky could make now if he had the vision.

MartinBWFC

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote: the sort of signings Parky could make now if he had the vision.
And therein lies the problem, in Parkinson's world Doidge is the future.

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The quality of manager isn't as important as the amount of money being spent, but I reckon  Sam would create a formidable, promotion chasing Championship team with £25 million.Some other managers wouldn't
When he got us promoted back in 2001 there was no war chest given to him by Eddie Davies.It was his fine management rather than  money that was the main factor in our success then.He had the remnants of Colin Todd's play off losing team and topped it up with bargains like Ricketts and Charlton, the sort of signings Parky could make now if he had the vision.

Agreed on Allardyce, Parky clearly not on his level. 

The Ricketts signing shares a lot of characteristics with that of Oztumer - out of contract, division below and done well for Walsall.

However the situation is markedly different now, those signings are more and more difficult to come by, I’m sure you’d agree. 

Parky’s transfer record will hinge largely on Doidge - slightly unfairly maybe but that’s the ‘big fee’ striker so he really needs to come off. I think he’s shown enough to suggest that given the chances he’ll be fine.



Last edited by T.R.O.Y on Mon Oct 15 2018, 13:29; edited 2 times in total

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote: the sort of signings Parky could make now if he had the vision.
And therein lies the problem, in Parkinson's world Doidge is the future

You think it’s the Cowley brothers you sausage.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I don’t expect KA to care about the club as such - nor do I blame him for not doing so. As has been said many time he’s a businessman who wants to turn a profit. Regarding his other business interests i’d be interested to know whether the public financial disputes at the club have damaged his reputation or not? 

It’s clear he wants to sell for the right price now, which makes sense for all involved. Can’t say I’m hopeful of anyone actually coming through though we’ve seen it all before.
I'm not too sure. As mentioned previously, now that the assets have all been hocked and the club continues to lose money, there nowhere else for Anderson to go and nothing left to prop up his tenure, hence his sudden interest in talking to potential investors - who I believe have been around for ages.
I reckon he has no choice left but to sell having used up every remaining resource with which to guarantee loans. 
If he can't borrow any more he knows that he will have to stop hiding his failure as an owner which he has previously marketed as "running the business well" as the losses will increasingly come out as the debts pile up.
The pressure on him to get rid must surely be an incentive to accept any actual offer, even if he doesn't get his big pay day.
If he doesn't, administration beckons. 
I'm wondering if the cost of administration works out to be less than the £30 million Anderson is asking for whether potential investors might just let it happen and then buy us for peanuts? It's a close call.

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It's been over 15 years since Allardyce managed us in the Championship, people need to get a grip.

MartinBWFC

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:It's been over 15 years since Allardyce managed us in the Championship, people need to get a grip.
17 years to be precise, but I won't derail your argument with facts, he has however managed West Ham in recent years to promotion.

Norpig

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'm sure i saw an article somewhere recently saying Big Sam wouldn't contemplate managing in the Championship again. I'd be happy to see him back in some other capacity if he was involved with a bid for the club.
£30million doesn't seem a lot for a club with it's own stadium, Hotel, Academy and other land but if the debts have to be cleared on top of that it pushes up the price.
I'm hoping the Americans haven't pulled out as leaving it a one horse race will make it more difficult as both sides will have to compromise to push a deal through.

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:17 years to be precise, but I won't derail your argument with facts, he has however managed West Ham in recent years to promotion.

I'm not sure why him managing West Ham has derailed my argument, you do realise they are a different club in a different part of the country?

MartinBWFC

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'm not sure why him managing West Ham has derailed my argument, you do realise they are a different club in a different part of the country?

Merely pointing out that he has form for getting promotion from this league.

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
But you moan about the quality of football under Parky, West Ham & Everton fans did exactly the same when Allardyce was managing them.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm sure i saw an article somewhere recently saying Big Sam wouldn't contemplate managing in the Championship again. I'd be happy to see him back in some other capacity if he was involved with a bid for the club.
£30million doesn't seem a lot for a club with it's own stadium, Hotel, Academy and other land but if the debts have to be cleared on top of that it pushes up the price.
I'm hoping the Americans haven't pulled out as leaving it a one horse race will make it more difficult as both sides will have to compromise to push a deal through.
The point is that it's by no means certain that the club still "owns" the stadium, hotel, academy and "other land" any more is it? 

Hasn't Anderson hocked it all for loans to prop up his tenure instead of running the business profitably?
The £30 million Anderson is asking for is for him to piss off so potential investors won't get anything for their £30 million other than inheriting the increased debt he leaves behind.
As far as I understand he's effectively remortgaged the house for cash so whilst the club's name might be on those assets they are in reality owned by the bank/creditors. Those debts will have to be settled in addition to Anderson's payoff before the club owns them outright again.

We won't get any detail until March 2019. The only set of accounts filed since Anderson arrived are for the period ending June 2017 during which there was a huge disposal of assets, considerable borrowing and a statement from the auditors which effectively said they couldn't verify the accounts. The accounts next March will only be up to June 2018 so even then we won't see what else he's hocked although we do know that the money borrowed from EDs estate was also secured against Burden Leisure assets since then. 

As for Allardyce, his circumstances have changed so who knows what he might do if an owner with real money bought us?

Nigelbwfc


David Lee
David Lee
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm sure i saw an article somewhere recently saying Big Sam wouldn't contemplate managing in the Championship again. I'd be happy to see him back in some other capacity if he was involved with a bid for the club.
£30million doesn't seem a lot for a club with it's own stadium, Hotel, Academy and other land but if the debts have to be cleared on top of that it pushes up the price.
I'm hoping the Americans haven't pulled out as leaving it a one horse race will make it more difficult as both sides will have to compromise to push a deal through.
The point is that it's by no means certain that the club still "owns" the stadium, hotel, academy and "other land" any more is it? 

Hasn't Anderson hocked it all for loans to prop up his tenure instead of running the business profitably?
The £30 million Anderson is asking for is for him to piss off so potential investors won't get anything for their £30 million other than inheriting the increased debt he leaves behind.
As far as I understand he's effectively remortgaged the house for cash so whilst the club's name might be on those assets they are in reality owned by the bank/creditors. Those debts will have to be settled in addition to Anderson's payoff before the club owns them outright again.

We won't get any detail until March 2019. The only set of accounts filed since Anderson arrived are for the period ending June 2017 during which there was a huge disposal of assets, considerable borrowing and a statement from the auditors which effectively said they couldn't verify the accounts. The accounts next March will only be up to June 2018 so even then we won't see what else he's hocked although we do know that the money borrowed from EDs estate was also secured against Burden Leisure assets since then. 

As for Allardyce, his circumstances have changed so who knows what he might do if an owner with real money bought us?
The loans were in place before AndwrsAn arrived, including blumarble. Car park was bought before Anderson arrived, academy is a loan by Brett Warburton before andersAn arrived etc, etc

bryan458

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:But you moan about the quality of football under Parky, West Ham & Everton fans did exactly the same when Allardyce was managing them.
Just that Sam's Crap Football got results regularly, Parky's crap Football Doesn't Laughing Laughing !!!

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
It comes back to who we could attract, and allardyce isn’t going to come here and work with no budget. Not many managers would, remember the names we were linked with when Parky came in? Not much has changed.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm sure i saw an article somewhere recently saying Big Sam wouldn't contemplate managing in the Championship again. I'd be happy to see him back in some other capacity if he was involved with a bid for the club.
£30million doesn't seem a lot for a club with it's own stadium, Hotel, Academy and other land but if the debts have to be cleared on top of that it pushes up the price.
I'm hoping the Americans haven't pulled out as leaving it a one horse race will make it more difficult as both sides will have to compromise to push a deal through.
The point is that it's by no means certain that the club still "owns" the stadium, hotel, academy and "other land" any more is it? 

Hasn't Anderson hocked it all for loans to prop up his tenure instead of running the business profitably?
The £30 million Anderson is asking for is for him to piss off so potential investors won't get anything for their £30 million other than inheriting the increased debt he leaves behind.
As far as I understand he's effectively remortgaged the house for cash so whilst the club's name might be on those assets they are in reality owned by the bank/creditors. Those debts will have to be settled in addition to Anderson's payoff before the club owns them outright again.

We won't get any detail until March 2019. The only set of accounts filed since Anderson arrived are for the period ending June 2017 during which there was a huge disposal of assets, considerable borrowing and a statement from the auditors which effectively said they couldn't verify the accounts. The accounts next March will only be up to June 2018 so even then we won't see what else he's hocked although we do know that the money borrowed from EDs estate was also secured against Burden Leisure assets since then. 

As for Allardyce, his circumstances have changed so who knows what he might do if an owner with real money bought us?
The loans were in place before AndwrsAn arrived, including blumarble. Car park was bought before Anderson arrived, academy is a loan by Brett Warburton before andersAn arrived etc, etc
Are you saying Anderson hasn't used the remaining club assets as collateral for loans then? Wow.

gloswhite

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Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:It comes back to who we could attract, and allardyce isn’t going to come here and work with no budget.
True, however, I don't believe there are many knocking at his door just now.

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:But you moan about the quality of football under Parky, West Ham & Everton fans did exactly the same when Allardyce was managing them.
Just that Sam's Crap Football got results regularly, Parky's crap Football Doesn't Laughing Laughing  !!!
Come off it - fans will moan regardless of the quality of football as the moment a team starts playing better, expectations rise again. Miserable bunch of bastards football fans.
And by the time Allardyce got to West Ham and Everton a lot of their fans had already decided they didn't like him before a ball was kicked, and didn't change their minds despite him going on to have a winning record at both clubs.
Personally I loved it when Allardyce was with us, not because of him or even for the results but for the sheer pleasure of watching the quality he had at his disposal. Okocha is a good example as he was very hit and miss but every time he got the ball there was the excitement that he might just do something extraordinary. And occasionally he did. Loved the players but still moaned about Allardyce.

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:And by the time Allardyce got to West Ham and Everton a lot of their fans had already decided they didn't like him before a ball was kicked, and didn't change their minds despite him going on to have a winning record at both clubs.

"Winning record" is a stretch.

Nigelbwfc


David Lee
David Lee
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm sure i saw an article somewhere recently saying Big Sam wouldn't contemplate managing in the Championship again. I'd be happy to see him back in some other capacity if he was involved with a bid for the club.
£30million doesn't seem a lot for a club with it's own stadium, Hotel, Academy and other land but if the debts have to be cleared on top of that it pushes up the price.
I'm hoping the Americans haven't pulled out as leaving it a one horse race will make it more difficult as both sides will have to compromise to push a deal through.
The point is that it's by no means certain that the club still "owns" the stadium, hotel, academy and "other land" any more is it? 

Hasn't Anderson hocked it all for loans to prop up his tenure instead of running the business profitably?
The £30 million Anderson is asking for is for him to piss off so potential investors won't get anything for their £30 million other than inheriting the increased debt he leaves behind.
As far as I understand he's effectively remortgaged the house for cash so whilst the club's name might be on those assets they are in reality owned by the bank/creditors. Those debts will have to be settled in addition to Anderson's payoff before the club owns them outright again.

We won't get any detail until March 2019. The only set of accounts filed since Anderson arrived are for the period ending June 2017 during which there was a huge disposal of assets, considerable borrowing and a statement from the auditors which effectively said they couldn't verify the accounts. The accounts next March will only be up to June 2018 so even then we won't see what else he's hocked although we do know that the money borrowed from EDs estate was also secured against Burden Leisure assets since then. 

As for Allardyce, his circumstances have changed so who knows what he might do if an owner with real money bought us?
The loans were in place before AndwrsAn arrived, including blumarble. Car park was bought before Anderson arrived, academy is a loan by Brett Warburton before andersAn arrived etc, etc
Are you saying Anderson hasn't used the remaining club assets as collateral for loans then? Wow.
As far as I'm aware the debts are ones Anderson inherited. He extended the Blu Marble one and I'm not aware that he's taken on any extra debt, only extended the term the debts needed to be paid off. 

The Eddie Davies £5 million is the only one I'm aware Anderson has taken on. 

The loans to others as I say were in place before he came and like most medium sized business men he's deferred it to a later date. Most sensible people would do that. You don't use up cash resources to pay off all debt. 

There is the £15 million bonus payment to ED/ moonshift if we get promoted that was agreed on the purchase of the company, and as far as I'm aware there are still cash flow problems. However, it's more manageable than it use to be.

The lack of fans coming into the UBOL will deter most investors now and I reckon he's been told that.

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
The key point of that post is ‘as far as you’re aware’. None of us know much at this point Nige.

terenceanne

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El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
I think if Americans buy us then they would maybe want an investment type opportunity. Not sure we fit into that mold at the moment.
But a Saudi with deep pockets who wants us has a personal toy to show off to his friends. These guys are not interested in making money its more of a bragging rights thing. 30 million is absolutely nothing to some of those people. Why do either one have an interest in us....will no doubt find out if any of this is not fake news.

Maurice Greene


David Ngog
David Ngog
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm sure i saw an article somewhere recently saying Big Sam wouldn't contemplate managing in the Championship again. I'd be happy to see him back in some other capacity if he was involved with a bid for the club.
£30million doesn't seem a lot for a club with it's own stadium, Hotel, Academy and other land but if the debts have to be cleared on top of that it pushes up the price.
I'm hoping the Americans haven't pulled out as leaving it a one horse race will make it more difficult as both sides will have to compromise to push a deal through.
The point is that it's by no means certain that the club still "owns" the stadium, hotel, academy and "other land" any more is it? 

Hasn't Anderson hocked it all for loans to prop up his tenure instead of running the business profitably?
The £30 million Anderson is asking for is for him to piss off so potential investors won't get anything for their £30 million other than inheriting the increased debt he leaves behind.
As far as I understand he's effectively remortgaged the house for cash so whilst the club's name might be on those assets they are in reality owned by the bank/creditors. Those debts will have to be settled in addition to Anderson's payoff before the club owns them outright again.

We won't get any detail until March 2019. The only set of accounts filed since Anderson arrived are for the period ending June 2017 during which there was a huge disposal of assets, considerable borrowing and a statement from the auditors which effectively said they couldn't verify the accounts. The accounts next March will only be up to June 2018 so even then we won't see what else he's hocked although we do know that the money borrowed from EDs estate was also secured against Burden Leisure assets since then. 

As for Allardyce, his circumstances have changed so who knows what he might do if an owner with real money bought us?
The loans were in place before AndwrsAn arrived, including blumarble. Car park was bought before Anderson arrived, academy is a loan by Brett Warburton before andersAn arrived etc, etc
Are you saying Anderson hasn't used the remaining club assets as collateral for loans then? Wow.

So, who provided these loans? How much was each one for? What club assets were used as collateral?

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